Comments on: Evangelism http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/ Glimpses by a Shadowed Pilgrim Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:45:45 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Carolyn http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-210 Carolyn Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:50:35 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-210 Thanks to those of you that have responded to Evangelism. Seriously, I now feel better about my negative feelings towards evangelism. As a church member, I know evangelism is not simply showing hospitality towards others and any attempts to make hospitality evangelism is terribly misleading to people whether they go to church or not. We church people have caused this mess. I think we need to ban the use of the word "evangelism". What the church needs is to get out of the church and find out what others in our community need in order to love and support them at what ever point they are in their lives. That, to me, should be what evangelism is. Thanks to those of you that have responded to Evangelism. Seriously, I now feel better about my negative feelings towards evangelism. As a church member, I know evangelism is not simply showing hospitality towards others and any attempts to make hospitality evangelism is terribly misleading to people whether they go to church or not. We church people have caused this mess. I think we need to ban the use of the word “evangelism”. What the church needs is to get out of the church and find out what others in our community need in order to love and support them at what ever point they are in their lives. That, to me, should be what evangelism is.

]]> By: mike rinehart http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-207 mike rinehart Wed, 18 Mar 2009 22:56:24 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-207 IMHO evangelism happens on at least two tiers I know of. One is personal evangelism, one-on-one. The second is congregational evangelism. There are probably other levels, but these are the ones I know. So, personal evangelism is a lot of listening. And a lot of accompaniment, like Jesus with the disciples on the road to Emmaus. “So, what’s been going on,” knowing full well by the throbbing in his hands what has been going on. I had a friend who was an atheist who became a pastor. “What changed your mind?” I asked. “Nothing” he replied. I was just loved unconditionally by some people of faith, and I recognized they had something I wanted. I was changed not in the mind, but in the heart. This kind of evangelism takes place when someone does something outrageously generous for another person, and they begin to look at that person in a more inquisitive way. What makes him/her click? Congregational evangelism happens when someone visits a church. Most people who visit a church are in crisis. They have had some kind of upheaval. Sometimes they’ve just moved. Moving is very high on the list of stressors. They are in need of friends. Community. Networking. Or maybe they’ve just divorced and are too embarrassed to visit their church. Or maybe something dreadful has happened to them and for the first time they are seeking out the church, even though they’ve never gone to church in their life. If they get in and out of church and go home without any visitor follow up we’re really dropping the ball. Someone has to get at the “why?” Why did this person, come to this church, in this place, at this time? The posture has to be “What do you need?” “Are you okay?” “What’s going on in your life.” I say posture because you can’t just come out and ask it that way. If you do they’ll respond with platitudes. If the posture is, “What can you do for me? For my church? How much will you give?” Then you’re right, we working against what we’re preaching. Mike Aus says if you do great personal evangelism but your church sucks (is unfriendly, spiritually dry), you’re dead in the water. Yes and no. The Spirit is still at work. But the church won’t be able to play. They won’t come back. What people need to grow spiritually cannot come from one person. It comes from multiple relationships. To grow spiritually they need more than a buddy. When I think of the times I’ve grow spiritually there have usually been one or more of the following components: 1. Pain 2. Community holding me accountable 3. Focus 4. Commitment 5. Space to fail, risk 6. Giving (I had to give of myself 7. Serving. (I’ve grown most when I’ve served others.) So. My thoughts on evangelism or whatever word we are going to use for helping people who feel far from God experience grace and hope. When a person who feels far from God finds a spiritual community, hope, joy, a new start, a breakthrough, that’s not numbers. That’s Life. Numbers and spiritual growth aren’t antithetical. They’re not identical either. But Jesus attracted a crowd. His preaching? His healing ministry? They probably didn’t all come because they wanted spiritual growth. But once he got them there, he pushed them. “You must be born again… Not literally you ninny… spiritually…” (John 3). “I will give you water so that you’ll never be thirsty again… Not literally you ninny… spiritually…” (John 4). “I am the bread of life…” We can do personal evangelism until we’re blue in the face, but if we can’t teach our congregations to do the same we’re in trouble. We’ll never be able to do evangelism. Or whatever we’re calling it now. IMHO evangelism happens on at least two tiers I know of. One is personal evangelism, one-on-one. The second is congregational evangelism. There are probably other levels, but these are the ones I know. So, personal evangelism is a lot of listening. And a lot of accompaniment, like Jesus with the disciples on the road to Emmaus. “So, what’s been going on,” knowing full well by the throbbing in his hands what has been going on. I had a friend who was an atheist who became a pastor. “What changed your mind?” I asked. “Nothing” he replied. I was just loved unconditionally by some people of faith, and I recognized they had something I wanted. I was changed not in the mind, but in the heart. This kind of evangelism takes place when someone does something outrageously generous for another person, and they begin to look at that person in a more inquisitive way. What makes him/her click?

Congregational evangelism happens when someone visits a church. Most people who visit a church are in crisis. They have had some kind of upheaval. Sometimes they’ve just moved. Moving is very high on the list of stressors. They are in need of friends. Community. Networking. Or maybe they’ve just divorced and are too embarrassed to visit their church. Or maybe something dreadful has happened to them and for the first time they are seeking out the church, even though they’ve never gone to church in their life. If they get in and out of church and go home without any visitor follow up we’re really dropping the ball. Someone has to get at the “why?” Why did this person, come to this church, in this place, at this time? The posture has to be “What do you need?” “Are you okay?” “What’s going on in your life.” I say posture because you can’t just come out and ask it that way. If you do they’ll respond with platitudes. If the posture is, “What can you do for me? For my church? How much will you give?” Then you’re right, we working against what we’re preaching.

Mike Aus says if you do great personal evangelism but your church sucks (is unfriendly, spiritually dry), you’re dead in the water. Yes and no. The Spirit is still at work. But the church won’t be able to play. They won’t come back. What people need to grow spiritually cannot come from one person. It comes from multiple relationships. To grow spiritually they need more than a buddy. When I think of the times I’ve grow spiritually there have usually been one or more of the following components: 1. Pain 2. Community holding me accountable 3. Focus 4. Commitment 5. Space to fail, risk 6. Giving (I had to give of myself 7. Serving. (I’ve grown most when I’ve served others.)

So. My thoughts on evangelism or whatever word we are going to use for helping people who feel far from God experience grace and hope.

When a person who feels far from God finds a spiritual community, hope, joy, a new start, a breakthrough, that’s not numbers. That’s Life.

Numbers and spiritual growth aren’t antithetical. They’re not identical either. But Jesus attracted a crowd. His preaching? His healing ministry? They probably didn’t all come because they wanted spiritual growth. But once he got them there, he pushed them. “You must be born again… Not literally you ninny… spiritually…” (John 3). “I will give you water so that you’ll never be thirsty again… Not literally you ninny… spiritually…” (John 4). “I am the bread of life…”

We can do personal evangelism until we’re blue in the face, but if we can’t teach our congregations to do the same we’re in trouble. We’ll never be able to do evangelism. Or whatever we’re calling it now.

]]> By: Nancy http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-190 Nancy Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:43:53 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-190 Piousness and the path of love are two different roads. Love is the fire that burns both belief and non-belief. Those who practice Love have neither religion nor caste. Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir - "Nobody, Son of Nobody" - Vraje Abramian Piousness and the path of love
are two different roads.
Love is the fire that burns both belief
and non-belief.
Those who practice Love have neither
religion nor caste.

Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir – “Nobody, Son of Nobody” – Vraje Abramian

]]> By: les http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-183 les Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:13:21 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-183 Evangelism..... And what is "grace"? "God's unmerited favor". And if there aren't good guys and bad guys, so someone is "righter" than others, then why have it? The old Gospel Song, "When we all get to heaven"- are we all going there? If so, then why evangelism? To the writer Paul, I think it meant "turning to God from idols." Maybe evangelism is shining the light on "idols" in our society. That's scary.... Jesus did that, and it cost him a whole bunch. Evangelism….. And what is “grace”? “God’s unmerited favor”. And if there aren’t good guys and bad guys, so someone is “righter” than others, then why have it? The old Gospel Song, “When we all get to heaven”- are we all going there? If so, then why evangelism? To the writer Paul, I think it meant “turning to God from idols.” Maybe evangelism is shining the light on “idols” in our society. That’s scary…. Jesus did that, and it cost him a whole bunch.

]]> By: Kris Franke Hill http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-182 Kris Franke Hill Tue, 10 Mar 2009 00:24:39 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-182 I react like you, do, Larry - the word "evangelism" gives me the shivers, and not in a good way. It sounds to me like a rallying cry for the Crusades. I do like the twist Bishop Mike put on it, only I agree with you - following up on visitors to Sunday worship is hospitality. And I can be very motivated to devote time and energy in the church to genuine hospitality to folks in the community. I don't know if I should start thinking about "evangelism" more as "hospitality" i.e. truly welcoming people, seeking to know what they might be hoping for in the church and needing in their lives - or if we could ease off on the term "evangelism" a bit and lean toward speaking of brotherly/sisterly love as we reach out to the world. Evangelism always sounds to me like a numbers game - we need more bodies! Pagans, by the way, are usually people I like. Interesting, educated, creative, fun people who care about the world, about human relations across the globe but who don't like "religion," or don't believe in God. At least, those are the folks who usually seem to get labelled "pagans." I like folks like that, but I don't know quite what to say to them about my faith. I get to know myself as a believer, a friend of Jesus, by being among other friends of Jesus. Community is central. Hearing the Word, studying the Word, are important, but being around God's people, a broad spectrum of God's people is essential, whether church-goers in tune with God somehow. I react like you, do, Larry – the word “evangelism” gives me the shivers, and not in a good way. It sounds to me like a rallying cry for the Crusades. I do like the twist Bishop Mike put on it, only I agree with you – following up on visitors to Sunday worship is hospitality. And I can be very motivated to devote time and energy in the church to genuine hospitality to folks in the community. I don’t know if I should start thinking about “evangelism” more as “hospitality” i.e. truly welcoming people, seeking to know what they might be hoping for in the church and needing in their lives – or if we could ease off on the term “evangelism” a bit and lean toward speaking of brotherly/sisterly love as we reach out to the world. Evangelism always sounds to me like a numbers game – we need more bodies!

Pagans, by the way, are usually people I like. Interesting, educated, creative, fun people who care about the world, about human relations across the globe but who don’t like “religion,” or don’t believe in God. At least, those are the folks who usually seem to get labelled “pagans.” I like folks like that, but I don’t know quite what to say to them about my faith.

I get to know myself as a believer, a friend of Jesus, by being among other friends of Jesus. Community is central. Hearing the Word, studying the Word, are important, but being around God’s people, a broad spectrum of God’s people is essential, whether church-goers in tune with God somehow.

]]> By: Nancy http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-181 Nancy Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:34:48 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-181 1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. 2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. 3. an irreligious or hedonistic person. We are our language; we invest in it. The word becoming flesh may have been good news, but the subsequent torquing, slicing, and dicing seems to have made communities desperate. Identity is at stake - threatened. Any joy? Maybe it's evangelism if you can't count it...invisible church. God will save whom God will save, regardless of our systems. How? Pagan + Love + Word + Community = Christian And historically, community identities were so essential - defining, necessary to survival. Today? We shop for communities, virtual and real. No more "these are the people God gave you." Evangelism What is the difference between a loving act done in Christ, and a loving act done apart from Christ? And when someone asks you why you do as you do... 1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.

We are our language; we invest in it. The word becoming flesh may have been good news, but the subsequent torquing, slicing, and dicing seems to have made communities desperate. Identity is at stake – threatened. Any joy?

Maybe it’s evangelism if you can’t count it…invisible church. God will save whom God will save, regardless of our systems.

How?
Pagan + Love + Word + Community = Christian

And historically, community identities were so essential – defining, necessary to survival. Today? We shop for communities, virtual and real. No more “these are the people God gave you.”

Evangelism
What is the difference between a loving act done in Christ, and a loving act done apart from Christ?

And when someone asks you why you do as you do…

]]> By: Pastor Joelle http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-180 Pastor Joelle Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:48:55 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-180 Why bother? Because people need grace. People say we live in a permissive culture and that may be true but permissive is not the same thing as graceful. Religious people are terrified they are not good enough for God and non-religious people are afraid they are just not good enough period. There isn't enough drugs, sex, stuff or even rock and roll to fill the hole in our souls. We need grace. That's why I bother. A pagan is anybody different than me. It doesn't matter when or how *we* know ourselves - what matters is how God knows us - as his beloved children. Why bother? Because people need grace. People say we live in a permissive culture and that may be true but permissive is not the same thing as graceful. Religious people are terrified they are not good enough for God and non-religious people are afraid they are just not good enough period. There isn’t enough drugs, sex, stuff or even rock and roll to fill the hole in our souls. We need grace. That’s why I bother.

A pagan is anybody different than me.

It doesn’t matter when or how *we* know ourselves – what matters is how God knows us – as his beloved children.

]]> By: Lauri http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/evangelism/#comment-179 Lauri Mon, 09 Mar 2009 19:37:41 +0000 http://keeneskwikies.wordpress.com/?p=196#comment-179 1. Evangelism: Aramaic for: 'get people to join you." No need to be clear about why... Indeed, for this type of evangelism, no one need bother. Kind of like theology. aka 'Bible worship'. This is not the faith in which Jesus taught. What Jesus wants us to do, as best we can, is in his instruction booklet. 2. A pagan is us, some or most of the time. 3. Christianity says to a man (or woman); "you shall choose to accept the essential truth of life"; and this truth is so compelling you have no choice but to accept it. Once you realize God is inviting you into his kingdom, you cannot refuse. (Thank you Mr Kierkegaard.) The 'how' of this is uncertain. 1. Evangelism: Aramaic for: ‘get people to join you.” No need to be clear about why… Indeed, for this type of evangelism, no one need bother.
Kind of like theology. aka ‘Bible worship’. This is not the faith in which Jesus taught. What Jesus wants us to do, as best we can, is in his instruction booklet.
2. A pagan is us, some or most of the time.
3. Christianity says to a man (or woman); “you shall choose to accept the essential truth of life”; and this truth is so compelling you have no choice but to accept it. Once you realize God is inviting you into his kingdom, you cannot refuse. (Thank you Mr Kierkegaard.) The ‘how’ of this is uncertain.

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